Do You Think Iroh Is Overhyped As A Character? It Feels Strange That People Adore A Character Who Comitted

I still have this cap from the official Avatar site and it’s no longer updated so you can find a lot old concepts. I find it pretty strange how different the two Ursas are.

In the original animated canon (discontinued and overridden):

Ursa was originally written as a Fire Nation noblewoman who got along very well with Ozai when they were younger. She loved him dearly and her proper lady upbringing made her an ideal future princess. Fire Lord Azulon and the Fire Sages arranged a marriage between Ozai and Ursa due to their strong compatibility. Zuko recalls times his family was “actually happy” before Ozai became mad and abusive. Ursa was supposed to appear in Book Four but the entire season ended up being scrapped after Paramount bought the rights to create a three-season trilogy. They later decided to have her return in the Avatar finale but she was cut out at the request of Bryan Konietzko. Ozai’s thirst for power and control itself probably stemmed from his feelings of inadequacy when compared to his prodigious elder brother and favored son of Azulon, Iroh. This is why Zuko sparing Azula’s life and wanting to help her despite their twisted relationship was seen as a major catalyst in creating an era of peace.

In the new comics canon (considered to be official):

The new Avatar comics have changed Ursa into a lower-class theater actress who hated Ozai and was forced to marry him as a part of a eugenics experiment the Fire Sages believed in. Their relationship is never shown to be happy and is like absolutely nothing you could call a “perfect match”. Ozai was always power hungry and abusive. He never cared for his family members unless they were of any use to him. Ursa has remained in love with her childhood friend Ikem for years and marries him after she runs away from the Fire National Capital. She asks for help from a spirit known as the Mother of Faces to erase her memories, change her face, and give her the name “Noriko”. She later has a daughter called Kiyi with Ikem (who likewise was given a new face and the name “Noren”). Zuko meets Noriko and she decides she must confront her past and became Ursa again. Her youngest daughter, Kiyi despises this change as she has only known Noriko and not Ursa all her life. Azula is grief-stricken with the fact that Ursa had a good relationship with her half-sister and never with her.

For some reason I just realized/noted another thing from Legacy of the Fire Nation book: the way Iroh speaks about Ozai in relation to both fire siblings. When he revealed that sometimes he sees Ozai in Zuko, he says so in a regrettable tone, about what could've been better and wished that was. Meanwhile, when he connected Ozai (and himself) to Azula, he only associated her to the traits he believed to be problematic and should be held accountable.

Furthermore, what he claimed to see in Zuko is surely his own view and opinion BUT what he sees in Azula is what he assumes how Ozai views her too. Iroh doesn't think that Ozai might liked Azula better because of her talent and intelligence but because of the "fury" or whatever that was.

He doesn't see or acknowledge the positive things about Azula and only assumed Ozai liked her better because she mirrors the worst part of himself.

P.S. the first full page here.

I drew my fav scene from Legacy of the Fire Nation =)

hold up- did izumi have a daughter? why wasn't she talked about in tlok? she was mentioned in the comics right? was she older or younger? what was she up to this whole time? who was she??

real quick, whenever I see this look on bakugo's face I think "damn, he's thinking back about his treatment of izuku" he's pissed, hurt, destroyed that he bullied and humiliated every single day this boy he always envyed, always loved always strived to act like, then when he gets a quirk, they both attend ua, they both tassel so many trials and wins together, and he finally admits he never hated him..he looses ofa and now he sits there like "was it all for nothing??" "was there no purpose after all??" "can we still be heroes together??" lol idk I just thought of it.

they've been through so much..and they're still growing. 🤧

@kigozula tags <----

there are a lot of bad takes in the atla fandom (like, atla fandom may as well be a bad take generator) but something that has really been pissing me off lately is the assumption that you can categorize the fire nation royal family into good guys and bad guys. first of all, obviously, they're all bad guys. they are imperialists. but the idea that "sozin ozai azula bad" and "iroh lu ten ursa zuko azulon(?!) good" is actually insane.

lu ten died attempting to conquer the earth kingdom. lu ten was there because his father, iroh, was leading the siege. ursa laughed when iroh joked about burning ba sing se to the ground. zuko laughed too, mirroring his dear mother who taught him about the wonders of imperialism. and the fact that some people think that azulon was a good guy because he favored iroh is crazy. he favored iroh because iroh was the better imperialist, was more charming and tactically savvy as he bent the world to his will. people who think that azulon didn't like ozai because ozai was cruel literally have it backwards. ozai was cruel because azulon didn't like him. sozin shaped azulon, and azulon shaped iroh and ozai. azulon reigned for most of the war, and he was responsible for decimating the southern water tribe and colonizing the earth kingdom.

iroh only realizes the error of his ways well into middle age, after spending a majority of his life colonizing the world. he only stops to reconsider once he experiences the adverse effects of war for himself through the loss of his son. likewise, zuko can only gain empathy for the victims of the war by being one himself, as a refugee in the earth kingdom, and bonding with people who have been hurt by the fire nation. azula doesn't get that chance. ozai doesn't get that chance. azulon, lu ten, and ursa are dead, so they will never get that chance. but it's not like there is some ontological moral divide separating azula from zuko. zuko was a sensitive child whereas azula was better at embodying fire nation values of power and cunning. zuko was punished for his outbursts whereas azula knew how to keep her mouth shut. therefore, zuko experienced circumstances that led him to disavow fire nation imperialism.

but that doesn't mean that azula is ontologically evil. azula was the iroh of her generation to zuko's ozai, and iroh (eventually) disavowed conquest as well. there is no inherent divide between good and bad, monster and human. ursa was a warm and loving mother to zuko, just as iroh was a warm and loving father to lu ten, but they both laughed at others' suffering. their values were shaped by their circumstances and experiences. their ideologies do not make them less human, or less capable of change, just as their interpersonal behaviors do not negate their abhorrent ideologies.

does it ever drive you crazy

just how fast the night changes

‘Just because you are a better person today does not mean you are entitled to my presence in your life.’

- What Lin said to Suyin in my imagination to help me cope with the fact that the writers allowed this tasteless and inconsiderate reconciliation to take place.